Kansas Crimson

Jimmy Buckets wants out of Minny.
Means Wiggins will have to step up.

^^^^I know it’s a bannable offense but still seriously considering whether it’s worth posting real life pics of a poster, cuz if there ever was one that would be worth it...

but for real that article is interesting to suggest Jimmy is a bad locker room presence. Perhaps publicly throwing teammmates under the bus is an indicator. Yet I dunno if many will disagee that it seems like Andrew could play harder on d. Either way, it’s Andrew’s time to show why he earned that max deal

Is Jimmy Butler a dickhead and a bad teammate? Sounds like it, yes.

Would Andrew Wiggins be a light years better player if he played as hard as Jimmy Butler on a night in, night out basis? Yes.

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:21 pm Is Jimmy Butler a dickhead and a bad teammate? Sounds like it, yes.

Would Andrew Wiggins be a light years better player if he played as hard as Jimmy Butler on a night in, night out basis? Yes.

Truf X2

Serious question. Would you guys have a problem with Butler if Wiggins wasn't involved?
My guess is no. Or at least not nearly as much.
Self basically did the same thing (called out Wiggins for a lack of effort) and how many of you gave Self shit for doing it?
I'm not saying Butler is a saint but to me he's not nearly as bad of a guy (as some of you make him out to be) for giving a shit and wanting his (max paid) teammate/s to give max effort - that they're getting paid to give and aren't giving.

I'll preface this by saying I'm a big Andrew Wiggins fan but it seems the beef is real and the Wiggins brothers (and Butler) are making clowns of themselves. At least I am finding humor in this.....

https://clutchpoints.com/timberwolves-n ... my-butler/

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/jimm ... n-jackson/

Which reminds me of this.....
https://www.12up.com/posts/6109364-andr ... ed-him-out

I've read that Butler has more of a problem with KAT than Wiggins at this point (or at least did prior to the new developments)....not sure if there is any truth to it.

Personally I wouldn't be shocked if Butler doesn't really even have an issue with either of them. It may just be more about getting out of Minny as fast as possible, and the best way to force their hand is to create locker room issues with their 2 young high paid players.

I assume Butler and KAT have a problem and and Butler and Wiggins have a problem and that's not a bad thing if Thibs stepped in and helped work it all out. It's really all about success, effort, and egos.
Thibs brought in Butler to try and light a fire under Wiggins and KAT. Seems they are all getting burned.
Sad thing is Wiggins is coming out looking like as big if not a bigger Schmuck than Butler is.

I think everyone will be better off once butler is moved. This simply didn't work out very well and unfortunately Minny lost some good pieces to get a few years of Butler.

I think the blame has to be squarely on Thibs here, to the point that firing is almost not a strong enough response. Competing in the NBA is actually really simple, math-wise, it's just extraordinarily hard to execute. Thibs pissed away a once-in-a-generation opportunity out of stubbornness and ego. He should be out of the league for good.

Minnesota's biggest mistake was hiring Thibodeau

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:43 am I think the blame has to be squarely on Thibs here, to the point that firing is almost not a strong enough response. Competing in the NBA is actually really simple, math-wise, it's just extraordinarily hard to execute. Thibs pissed away a once-in-a-generation opportunity out of stubbornness and ego. He should be out of the league for good.

Agree 100%. Dude is a fucking clown.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2473 ... ng-players

Andrew Wiggins

"The Jimmy Butler drama masks another festering stench: What if Wiggins is just, like, not good? I was a cautious Wiggins optimist when analytics folks buried him as a teenaged rookie, but he has shown zero meaningful improvement over four seasons. If anything, he has gotten worse."

"He has never had the impact he should on defense. He doesn't rebound, force turnovers, or contest shots. He is a bystander.

He could be more on a team that played faster, with more shooting and fewer ball-handlers. But unless Wiggins improves, that team would be bad.

At some point, the tools and the highlights have to translate into something better than "smaller Rudy Gay." If Minnesota moves Butler or Tyus Jones -- and Phoenix has asked about Jones, sources say -- that would at least place Wiggins into some lineups with only one other primary ball-handler.

Regardless: Wiggins is almost 24. It's time."

Ouch.

Saying he hasn't improved in 4 years is blatantly false.

No, he didn't turn out to be the next superstar wing that some thought he would....it shouldn't be a shock. He's never been a great ball handler or a great outside shooter, and those are 2 things that are very useful in today's NBA. He's a freak athlete. Tall, long, fast, bouncy...but those thing alone won't make you a top 15-20 player in the world....and imo his ball handling and outside shooting have both improved since he's been in the league. I think last year's shooting percentages are largely a throw away number simply because his role was so unsuited for his game. Stand around a shoot 3s or be a catch and shoot guy isn't what he's good at. He's someone who needs the ball in iso situations and that didn't work well with butler also wanting/needing the ball in iso situations. They don't fit well together. But he'd fit well with KAT Lavine Dunn and Lauri Markanen..oh wait.

He was worse in 2017-18 than he was in 16-17.

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:15 am He was worse in 2017-18 than he was in 16-17.

Was he "worse" as a player or did he have a worse year because he doesn't fit well next to Jimmy butler? I personally think it's the fit with butler...not saying he didn't have a bad year, he did by his standards. But a lot had to do with how that roster was put together imo.

I don't have access to advanced stats, but I'd love to see a comparison of Wiggins on the floor with butler vs Wiggins on the floor without butler.

Fair points, all.

I wouldn’t doubt if Wiggins hasn’t led the league in minutes played the last 3 or 4 years. I think KAT was in the top 3-5 in minutes. Thibs grinds his players to dust.
Barkley was always complaining about the style. He said “you have all these athletes, turn them loose”. Wiggins should have been put into positions to score. He can draw fouls like mad due to his speed. The FT% will go up. If Butler is gone, I hope KAT doesn’t sign until they fire Thibodeau.
KAT has been terrible on defense. He’s lighter now, he didn’t defend well in college because he fouled too much. Could be his lateral quickness, I don’t know. He’s still highly rated and hopefully becomes a 1-2 punch with Wiggins.
In 4 seasons Wiggins has missed 1 game
KAT 3 years and missed 0. Thibs just doesn’t give a day off when they need an extra day.
PS Rumor that Butler screwed KAT’s girlfriend.

Someone made a good point to me yesterday - part of Wiggs' issues comes from how Thibs uses him (moving laterally off screens, for example). He needs to be put in a position to move downhill.