Kansas Crimson

but there ARE comparisons to be made to Iraq! And the argument DID come out a long-ass time ago! It's that you guys just neglected to even consider that argument! (Halliburton lulz...among other concerns)

This is yet another example of how selective you're being in your understanding.

And the "WMDs in Iraq" rhetoric (that turned out to be bullshit) is reason to view with skepticism subsequent rhetoric from the exact same dipshits. "Fool me once..."

Now consider the "exclusively responsible" rhetoric is just that, more rhetoric, and oversimplified and again selective and absolutist at that.

But at the end of the day, it's just more rhetoric, from the exact. same. dipshits.

The "if you had a better argument that never did come out, despite repeated requests to be made, is why those exact same dipshits that pulled WMDs in Iraq on us should suddenly be so trusted about the "exclusively responsible," "clear and simple battle of good and evil," "for no matter how long it takes" sort of rhetoric surrounding Ukraine.

BTW, thanks for clarifying that you guys only care to discuss Ukraine, cuz for a moment I thought the "current situation" might also include Israel. And I just recently shared an article like, "Biden administration officials concerned Israel making same mistakes U.S. made in Iraq," so there's a parallel there, too.

Recap. Repeat.

So much typing.

Just stop. Give up. Move on.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 2:16 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 1:33 pm Oh, believe me, I have asked some hard questions about my views.

Have you?

I would think you'd remember all the shit you gave me for declining to take strong positions on things I acknowledged out loud that I do not understand very well.

and dude, that position you declined to take was such a layup, too. It regarded U.S. allies using U.S. weapons to blow up U.S. civilian aid workers. Even dozens of democratic lawmakers expressed concern about it! But instead of just offering a "okay that's fucked up" or a "bad" or a "maybe those dems actually have cause for concern," you offered a "don't understand."

It would give me great pause to align myself with Putin, Trump and Kim.

it gave me great pause, as well, that my perception of the situation aligned with Putin's talking points. AT NO POINT DID I ALIGN MYSELF WITH PUTIN! Like I said, I've asked some hard questions here. That's why I already took the time - in this very thread! At your very prompt! - to contrast and, on certain limited issues, compare my views with Putin's.

The one thing that did compare was, I am concerned the U.S./Ukraine/NATO/"The West" really may have provoked Russia here. One piece of rationale I offered toward this concern was, how the U.S.'s own rhetoric somehow went from "POTUS doesn't wanna flood Ukraine with weapons out of concerns it'll provoke Russia," to "it's the U.S.'s god given right to flood Ukraine with weapons if we damn well please, and boy do we damn well please, and if anyone even suggests the "provoke" word we're gonna ridicule you as a Putin parrot, you Putin parrot!"

I think it gives you pause, also, based on just how defensive you get on this point (despite it being indisputable).

actually bro, I almost feel like I'm on a certain offensive here, kinda like when the bored at large would demonstrate to lobster over and over again that his anti-vaxxer bullshit was bullshit, even if lobster neglected to understand any of it.

The issue here is, now it's the bored at large here is now among those neglecting to understand everything I (and DCHawk1) have demonstrated.

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 2:09 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:53 am Heads up! I’m not the one posting the grunting.

But perhaps trad does it to amuse the illy/tdub circle jerk, cuz boy do you guys like it, dontcha?

And BTW if it really needs to be said my sanction/speak to congress comment was facetious. I think it’s silly to be concerned about war crimes allegations not cuz of the objective credibility and severity of the allegations themselves, but only when it satisfies one’s good guy bad guy world views.

More generally, my persistence in this thread is out of a certain fascination I find in observing those who have learned not. one. single. god. damn. thing! from WMDs in Iraq, among other geopolitical lulz.

Rather than even consider a thing beyond that, you insult and put down and dodge and duck and dip and dive and dodge and normalize death threats and grunt. Like literally fucking grunt.

It’s quite the case study.

continuing to compare the current situation to the WMDs in Iraq is just insane. You always claim you're willing to listen and change your opinion...this thread has proved, without a shred of doubt, that, that is just completely untrue.

I'd be willing to change my opinion if anyone ever offered any argument at all, let alone any argument that made sense, as to why the same dipshits who sold us on WMDs in Iraq should suddenly be trusted about Ukraine.

just shut the fuck up already.

once again, how authoritarian of you.

now, I'll once again suggest, just ignore me.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:48 pm Recap. Repeat.

So much typing.

Just stop. Give up. Move on.

I'll once again suggest, just ignore me.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 1:51 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:53 am Heads up! I’m not the one posting the grunting.

But perhaps trad does it to amuse the illy/tdub circle jerk, cuz boy do you guys like it, dontcha?

And BTW if it really needs to be said my sanction/speak to congress comment was facetious. I think it’s silly to be concerned about war crimes allegations not cuz of the objective credibility and severity of the allegations themselves, but only when it satisfies one’s good guy bad guy world views.

More generally, my persistence in this thread is out of a certain fascination I find in observing those who have learned not. one. single. god. damn. thing! from WMDs in Iraq, among other geopolitical lulz.

Rather than even consider a thing beyond that, you insult and put down and dodge and duck and dip and dive and dodge and normalize death threats and grunt. Like literally fucking grunt.

It’s quite the case study.

Yes, watching you get bent out of shape at a smartass response to your admittedly smartass response is quite the case study indeed.

and yet, when prompted to clarify, one poster did so by articulating his position and concerns, and the other poster...uh, kept grunting.

JFC

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:45 pm And the "WMDs in Iraq" rhetoric (that turned out to be bullshit) is reason to view with skepticism subsequent rhetoric from the exact same dipshits. "Fool me once..."

But take this one teeny tiny example.

As best as I can tell - which is not always easy, because one of your things on this subject has been to overstuff your posts with flares and chaff - you are trying to say something like…

…we shouldn’t dismiss Putin’s unsupported claims justifying his war on Ukraine, because in the early 2000s the United States and its allies invaded Iraq on the basis of Bush’s claims that turned out not to be supported by hard evidence?

Do I have this right?

I’m really trying to understand what exactly your argument, at bottom, is.

No, you don't have this right.

I was gonna try rephrasing the "fool me once" point, but what I think will be more constructive to instead start by asking:

What you find so difficult to understand about the argument that the "WMDs in Iraq" rhetoric (that turned out to be bullshit) is reason to view with skepticism subsequent rhetoric from the exact same dipshits?

Cuz I was gonna say my argument at bottom is something like that.

But, instead, I think we should zoom out further yet, and just say my argument is that you are among a handful of posters here who seem severely under the influence of Cold War propaganda.

Maybe zooming even further, but related, if I may ask:

What do you think of the U.S. throwing bajillions of weapons to Taiwan now too?

If China were to respond aggressively, what then?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:56 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 2:09 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:53 am Heads up! I’m not the one posting the grunting.

But perhaps trad does it to amuse the illy/tdub circle jerk, cuz boy do you guys like it, dontcha?

And BTW if it really needs to be said my sanction/speak to congress comment was facetious. I think it’s silly to be concerned about war crimes allegations not cuz of the objective credibility and severity of the allegations themselves, but only when it satisfies one’s good guy bad guy world views.

More generally, my persistence in this thread is out of a certain fascination I find in observing those who have learned not. one. single. god. damn. thing! from WMDs in Iraq, among other geopolitical lulz.

Rather than even consider a thing beyond that, you insult and put down and dodge and duck and dip and dive and dodge and normalize death threats and grunt. Like literally fucking grunt.

It’s quite the case study.

continuing to compare the current situation to the WMDs in Iraq is just insane. You always claim you're willing to listen and change your opinion...this thread has proved, without a shred of doubt, that, that is just completely untrue.

I'd be willing to change my opinion if anyone ever offered any argument at all, let alone any argument that made sense, as to why the same dipshits who sold us on WMDs in Iraq should suddenly be trusted about Ukraine.

just shut the fuck up already.

once again, how authoritarian of you.

now, I'll once again suggest, just ignore me.

the entire fucking world (besides Kim, Trump, Putin and maybe Xi...but he's just seeing where the advantage lies) agrees on what's happening in Ukraine. Many many times in many many ways people have provided sources and examples of this, yet you refuse to change your opinion. Youre an idiot or a troll, I don't know of other options.

the entire fucking world (besides like most of the world)

lol

for real tho, I don't think you nor anyone else has provided that many times nor ways worth of sources nor examples to indicate as much. A few heres and theres, pretty overwhelmingly from western sources, sure. Maybe even with a couple of those random Russian doods peppered in!

But, the entire world? That's a big place! I'm not sure you nor anyone else has even mentioned places like Africa or South America or the Middle East. What do they think of it?

And any sources that have been provided only, and overwhemingly, to push the narrative of "U.S./NATO/Ukraine good, Russia bad, and Putin's a scary imperial boogeyman!"

And, yea, those are concerns!

But I also think those concerns should also be weighed alongside concerns like, all the evidence that these wars are once again about things like oil and global markets and stock prices and economic windfalls and imperial cock measuring contests, far more than it is about any sort of freedom and democracy or liberating any people.

But the fact you guys continue to sidestep all that, along with all the other shit being perped across the entire fucking world that you just sorta neglect to understand, to instead just put me down personally.

Okay, fine, in all fairness, that's not entirely accurate:

...to instead just put me down personally, and grunt.

once again, that's coincidentally the exact same emoji that lobster used mockingly.

that’s all you deserve

Well if that’s all I deserve then maybe I at least don’t deserve to be killed any more…progress?

there are pages upon pages upon pages upon pages in this very thread of multiple posters, myself included, giving you the benefit of the doubt and providing all sorts of evidence for why this is absolutely a “west good, putin bad” situation

you can’t help but draw false equivalencies in your incessant crusade against US foreign policy…but this has all been pointed out, quite respectfully and thoughtfully by posters with much more patience than i (namely, jfish)

enough is enough. quit playing the fucking victim. your stubborn self-righteousness has eroded any desire to treat you with even an ounce of respect

in this case, assuming death threats is what i was referencing only serves to make an ass out of you

just another day in the life of intentional mischaracterization?

Didn’t mean to mischaracterize.

I’m just upset and troubled and genuinely confused by me calling out a poster for threatening to kill me and the first thing you have to say about it is, “someone needs to take a break, and it’s not the poster who threatened to kill.”

As if threatening to kill someone is NOT the behavior that needs the break.

At least that’s how it kinda came across to me. Like after such a scary encounter, I don’t think it should be that difficult to say anything that could be even vaguely interpreted as condoning a death threat…yet here we are, I guess.

And it was very upsetting, because I don’t think you really wish me killed. I still think there’s a human being left in you, trad.

But if you want to clear the air on that on that one, here’s your chance.

Please?

February 2022. That's when this Russia Ukraine invasion started.

Q has passed the 2 year mark of continuous meltdown.

Wow.